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Post by oldmoleskins on Sept 24, 2006 18:13:17 GMT
We find plant labels around the garden from time to time - normally nailed to the wall - but this one was dug up while looking for the original path outside the potting shed... So, anyone know what "Earl of Warwick" was, or maybe still is? I just Googled it and got 253,000 listings. The first 3 pages didn't seem relevant and I thought it easier to ask you lot! OM.  |
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Post by Rosefriend on Sept 24, 2006 18:37:16 GMT
I do not think that it has anything to do with roses or....??
The first think that comes to mind is the War of the Roses (30 years) - Lancastrians versus Yorkists.
Lancastrians had a Red Rose - Yorkists had a white one.
However what are you doing with a label - it can't have anything to do with it. Will have to think.
Have any other people got an idea?
Rosefriend
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Post by 4pygmies on Sept 24, 2006 18:47:08 GMT
Well, I thought it was more likely to be a fruit tree or an old variety of vegetable but all I've been able to find is a Hemerocallis called "Earl of Warwick". Very interesting....
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Post by Plocket on Sept 24, 2006 19:20:07 GMT
Looking at the label I would suggest that it's a shrub or small plant rather than a tree - they usually have their names tied or even nailed onto them.
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Post by oldmoleskins on Sept 24, 2006 19:28:50 GMT
Sorry 4P - Hemerocallis? got me there.
OM.
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Post by lottielady on Sept 24, 2006 19:36:19 GMT
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Post by oldmoleskins on Sept 24, 2006 19:57:11 GMT
thanks for that LL - there may be a clue there, though I see E of W is not listed in the "product catalog" - you'd think they would perpetuate it if it is a rose!
Om
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Post by lottielady on Sept 24, 2006 20:25:16 GMT
OM do you have any idea how old the labels are??
LL x
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Post by Dr Bill on Sept 24, 2006 20:34:22 GMT
Sorry 4P - Hemerocallis? got me there. OM. Day Lily |
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Post by lottielady on Sept 24, 2006 20:37:17 GMT
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Post by Rosefriend on Sept 24, 2006 20:43:48 GMT
OM - a couple of questions if I may - where did you find it - by that I mean were there orchards or veg. gardens or something there years ago.
The label says to me Victorian era, kitchen gardens, box hedges, herbs etc etc. I once remember reading about a very large house where the cooks and gardeners used labels next to the plants that visiting "gentry" liked.
That is to say that when the Earl of Warwick visited he ate or liked only what was under his name in the veg patch.
Seems a bit odd, I know, - but who knows....perhap you will find other labels - Duke of York for example........
Rosefriend
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Post by oldmoleskins on Sept 24, 2006 20:43:51 GMT
Dr Bill, thank you.
LL - well, the ones nailed to the wall are all Victorian - fruiting trees from its heyday as a fully funtioning walled garden.
This one is on a spike to position it - maybe - by something more transient - a prized variety, new at the time maybe?
When "the time" was is anybody's guess, but it's very well made, in a sturdy Victorian sort of way. It was buried under years of detritus - but even 50 years is "only" 1956!!!
OM
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Post by oldmoleskins on Sept 24, 2006 20:47:37 GMT
Sorry, Rosefriend, posting at the same time!
Yes, could be, previous (Victorian) owner was well-enough connected. Just going to LL's second link to see what is...
OM.
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Post by oldmoleskins on Sept 24, 2006 21:28:43 GMT
Well, LL, looks like you've nailed it!! Thanks and well done!! Paul's 1909 it is then.
Just by way of a "small world" ps, when I was a very small boy, my dad used to take me to an antique shop in Cheshunt from time to time, buying all sorts of 'curios' as he called them.
We never seemed to get out in less than half an hour, and the owner - an old man to me at the time, and certainly older than my dad, was a Mr Paul. I remember him saying (more than once) that Rochford's (the much bigger and still current Cheshunt Nurserymen) had "done for them" - ie the Paul family business. Must be the same people...
OM.
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Post by lottielady on Sept 24, 2006 21:43:12 GMT
Thats an interesting link to the past OM - but a great shame that the rose is no longer in existence. There is a french rose I found while looking for the Earl - Madame William Paul which I think is still available, so it's nice to know the family name is still connected to roses.
LL x
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Post by oldmoleskins on Sept 25, 2006 8:33:08 GMT
LL, this "horticultural archaeology" continues to fascinate me -
are you able to say "no longer in existence" because it isn't currently listed anywhere, or do you have access to a database giving the date of it ceasing to be commercially grown?
And -
do you know why the American Rose Society call it's "urn" - presumably a prestigious prize - the "Earl of Warwick Urn"? Do you think that's named after the Earl or, by amazing coincidence, this second "mystery rose" of mine?
OM.
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Post by lottielady on Sept 25, 2006 9:12:42 GMT
Hi OM - I only say not in existence as there were no links to a current supplier - perhaps someone still has one of these roses, that would be great!
Maybe it is worth emailing the American Rose Society and showing them the photo of your label, and asking them how they have connected their prize to the Earl, I'm sure they will be really interested. I did'nt go as far as finding out if the 'parents' of the EoW are still avavilable, if they are, then it could be produced again.
I hope I have'nt given you the impression that I know a lot about roses, as I don't know a lot about anything really, I just like unravelling mysteries!
LL x
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Post by oldmoleskins on Sept 25, 2006 9:23:27 GMT
Email on its way to the ARS as we speak, LL, and I'll let you know!
OM.
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Post by Plocket on Sept 25, 2006 17:50:53 GMT
Can't wait to see what they say! Perhaps it's an urn because it's got the original rose's ashes in it! Or the fact that you can plant a rose in an urn. Oh I don't know!!! ;D
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Post by oldmoleskins on Sept 25, 2006 19:09:23 GMT
Well, I've had a reply from the Assistant to the Director, no less. She says the urn no longer exists, but 'lives on' in an annual competition. Not quite the fullest answer, (in fact we knew that, didn't we, LL) so I've emailed back asking (again) if they know why the original sponsor chose that name for their challenge.
Anyway, the story so far: we know it was a deep pink rose, launched 1904, no longer commercially available, but thought well enough of by an American back in 1960 to name it in their sponsored annual challenge cup (urn). It ended up with the AARS (All-America Rose Selections) who gave it to the American Rose Society "years ago" - who promptly lost it. The class lives on:
"The Earl of Warwick Urn: an entry of six (6) specimens, all different varieties, that have been All-America Rose Selections from 1941 through the current year's introductions, correctly named and exhibited in separate containers. Open only to current members of the American Rose Society. Fall award."
Coo. And if I ever hear any more, I'll get back to you.
Om
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Post by lottielady on Sept 25, 2006 20:22:44 GMT
Hi OM - That sounds like they don't really know! What a shame.
Have you posted photos of your garden on here yet? I would love to see it.
LL x
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Post by oldmoleskins on Sept 26, 2006 9:14:51 GMT
Not much to see, LL - it's all "work in progress" at the moment, but I'll put a pic in "where we live" in the gallery, if you're interested...
Had further email from American Rose:
"I don't mind elaborating on it a little but it will take research which I unforutnately have no time for right at this moment. I am in the middle of preparations for our Fall National Convention in Dallas next month and also have a new group of Officers/Board members to prepare for as well...that is taking all of my time right now as I have 2 weeks to get it done.....if you can wait until after Dallas (appx. Oct 23) I will be happy to give you more info..."
Blimey.
OM.
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Post by lottielady on Sept 26, 2006 10:01:07 GMT
Sounds like they are a bit on the busy side OM - I hope they do find the time to do some research , and I do hope its more than just tagging on to a name that has 'links' with royalty and the War of the Roses.
LL x
p.s thanks for posting the photo of your garden - I've replied on that thread, but I'll say it again it's fantastic!.
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Post by Chuckles on Dec 11, 2006 21:08:46 GMT
Did you ever get any more info on this OM from The ARS.
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Post by oldmoleskins on Dec 11, 2006 21:16:17 GMT
funnily enough I emailed the contact there - Carol Spiers, Assistant to the Executive Director no less - only this week reminding her, and she immediately emailed back admitting she'd forgotten but would look into it. So it's not totally dead...perhaps.
OM.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2006 21:50:42 GMT
:
Just happened to be reading from" encyclopedia, about "THE WAR OF THE ROSES----- I thought this bit was interesting.
QUOTE " The Lancastrians were defeated at Towton and their cause was hopeless until - The Earl Of Warwick, changed sides
in 1470.
Henry, was then released from prison and restored to the throne
Don't know if any of this is relevant
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Post by fozzie on Dec 13, 2006 23:02:32 GMT
I can not trace the parents to any current grower, but the likelihood of getting the same rose again is very remote it would have been one of dozens of seedlings all different E oW would have been chosen as one of the best. As for the Paul family their name lives on there are many famous Paul Roses.
Foz
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Post by fozzie on Dec 14, 2006 17:07:19 GMT
Just a bit of tittle tattle. Something you could drop into the conversation during a lull in the snug one Winters night. "La France" , one of the seed "grand-parents ", of EoW is not only still available but is of historical importance, as it is recognised by many to be the original HT
Foz
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Post by oldmoleskins on Dec 14, 2006 17:30:27 GMT
thanks for that, fozzie...I'm still waiting for more info from the USA - and of course it is possible it has been perpetuated over there, I guess, even if it's no longer commercially listed. Having said that, given the number of growers/enthusiasts and the impossibility of truly comprehensive listing, it may even be available here, somewhere...
OM.
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Post by fozzie on Dec 15, 2006 18:59:45 GMT
I'll put out a few feelers, call in a few favours, know what I mean, say no more
Foz
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