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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2007 8:30:11 GMT
Not sure where this should be posted, but thought it might be worth bringing to your attention;
Gardener must use warning signs
A pensioner has been told she must stop tending a public flower bed unless she agrees to wear a fluorescent jacket, put up warning signs and use a lookout.
June Turnbull, 79, of Urchfront near Devizes, has nurtured the blooms on the plot for eight years.
But now she is being told to obey health and safety rules after being spotted by a county council official.
Mrs Turnbull said: "They can send me to jail if they like - I just want to be left alone to do it."
[It is] health and safety gone mad
June Turnbull
Peter Hanson, divisional highways manager at Wiltshire County Council said:"We are always happy to work with individuals and organisations that are willing to help improve the appearance of local roads through improvements such as flower beds.
"However, to ensure this type of work is done safely they need to seek permission from us to enable us to check there are no local safety issues, such as underground wires or pipes.
"We also require that people undertaking this type of work follow the same safety procedures as our own staff to ensure they are not put at risk.
"This will include wearing fluorescent jackets, placing warning signs and in some case, such as this location in Urchfont because it is on a bend, working in pairs. We provide both signs and jackets free of charge to any volunteers."
Urchfont Parish Council has recently applied for such a licence and has had a meeting with the county council to discuss questions about the safety conditions attached to it.
"We need to get a licence from the Highways Authority to enable work on this bed to be done, people must wear a fluorescent jacket, have warning signs and have two people working there," Peter Newell, chairman of Urchfont Parish Council, told BBC News.
A defiant Mrs Turnbull said it was "health and safety gone mad" and has vowed to continue gardening despite the warning she will be banned.
She insisted: "I love doing it. I want to make it as pretty as I possibly can. I will continue working on the flower bed."
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Post by nightowl on Aug 13, 2007 8:39:59 GMT
They are not doing their job properly!  What about the safety helmet and steel-toecap boots??? And the personal armed bodyguard?  ?? Anyway, at 79, she is well over compulsory retirement age, and must be forced to stop immediately!!! They are putting her health and safety at risk  , and should be ashamed of themselves!!! You couldn't make it up!  ;D |
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Post by Plocket on Aug 13, 2007 11:09:53 GMT
Actually I don't see why she's getting het up about having to wear a flurescent jacket - it makes sense so that motorists etc. can see her. However I think the council saying that people need permission to undertake weeding and deadheading, and the like, really is crazy - surely they should be thrilled that this lady is doing their work, that they would have to pay someone to do. And it's not as though they are sending her out to buy the jacket either.
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Post by snowowl on Aug 13, 2007 11:19:05 GMT
I think the lady is doing a good job.But the local councill do have a point about the jacket and also pipes and underground wires.
They are only looking out for the safety of the lady.
If anything happend to her while doing this gardening they would never forgive themselves for not insisting on health and safety first.
If i was in the elderly ladys possition i would realise they were only looking out for her own good.
They are not stopping her from doing what she enjoys only asking for a bit more awareness after all.
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Post by Weeterrier on Aug 13, 2007 11:54:42 GMT
I don't think this is a sign of a nanny-state. More of a sign of one guarding itself from public liability claims.
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Post by Barbara on Aug 13, 2007 14:22:07 GMT
i think they are mental.
they want her to drag heavy steel signs around with her,
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Post by pdblake on Aug 13, 2007 14:56:40 GMT
I think the lady is doing a good job.But the local councill do have a point about the jacket and also pipes and underground wires. They are only looking out for the safety of the lady. If anything happend to her while doing this gardening they would never forgive themselves for not insisting on health and safety first. If i was in the elderly ladys possition i would realise they were only looking out for her own good. They are not stopping her from doing what she enjoys only asking for a bit more awareness after all. Call me cynical but their motive is probably more anti-litigation than this lady's welfare. |
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Post by Mr Grinch on Aug 13, 2007 18:55:27 GMT
I think weetalrier is right ! If she gets knocked down then the council will say that they have already warned her ! Just covering their bums im afraid !
Mr G
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Post by Biggles on Aug 15, 2007 19:25:39 GMT
I think weetalrier is right ! If she gets knocked down then the council will say that they have already warned her ! Just covering their bums im afraid ! Mr G Wee T is quite right-- The council are just covering themselves Just in case she sues them for any injury caused. This is 'Compensation State' gone mad--unfortunately. Just like the "banning playing conkers in school"- Tree climbing etc. Can others think of other instances? |
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Post by JennyWrenn on Aug 15, 2007 20:17:22 GMT
This reminds me of the old lady who went into a pub (true story) wearing her customary hat and was told to take it off as it looked threatening - no hoodies no hats allowed Poor old thing what must she think -  |
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Post by nightowl on Aug 16, 2007 10:13:03 GMT
I think weetalrier is right ! If she gets knocked down then the council will say that they have already warned her ! Just covering their bums im afraid ! Mr G Wee T is quite right-- The council are just covering themselves Just in case she sues them for any injury caused. This is 'Compensation State' gone mad--unfortunately. Just like the "banning playing conkers in school"- Tree climbing etc. Can others think of other instances? I know they banned "Tag" or "Chase" in some schools, as it could get aggressive and lead to bullying. Also, a child running away might fall over...... And, even crazier, "Kiss-chase" was deemed to be Sexual Harrassment!!!! |
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Post by Weeterrier on Aug 16, 2007 10:25:03 GMT
Parks are not allowed to grow fruit trees now, in case someone gets hit by a falling apple, or slips on a rotten one.  |
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Post by nightowl on Aug 16, 2007 12:03:23 GMT
The World has gone mad WT, and I love your new avatar!  |
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Post by Cheerypeabrain on Aug 16, 2007 15:28:26 GMT
Do you know...this thread has made me think about when I'm a crumbly....I hate to think that there may come a time when I can't get into the garden, grow my own veg etc...do OAP care homes have gardening facilities ? a bit of GH therapy would improve the quality of life of many an elderly person doncha think?
Not heavy digging or owt...just a bit of pottering....sowing etc....
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Post by Shrubrose on Aug 16, 2007 16:24:14 GMT
CPB, I've had the same thought too. I will hate it when I can no longer manage in the garden. I'm sure some of the better care homes that cater for the more independent and able older person do provide this sort of 'therapy' but it would be better if they all could for those that wanted it. Or even just a garden for folks to sit and watch the seasons change, the wildlife come and go, would be lovely wouldn't it?
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Post by MamIDdau on Aug 16, 2007 16:35:44 GMT
If she got mowed down by a motorist who didn't see her then everyone would be complaining that she was allowed to work there without the relevant safety equipment and why didn't the council do something? They have to cover themselves in the event of the worst thanks to those who believe where there's blame there's a claim.
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Post by Weeterrier on Aug 16, 2007 17:16:15 GMT
I used to be the gardener in a walled victorian garden owned by the council. People who had moved to flats, and missed their own garden, used to come and help me out as and when they wanted to. They would deadhead, maybe do a little light weeding etc., They didn't get paid, but were given a voucher to have a lovely lunch at the coffee shop, and got an invitation to a "volunteer party" at Christmas.
I had to be very careful about where I deserted my tools whilst working, in case someone tripped over one of them. And even my prunings had to be kept away from paths at all times. The paths were examined every morning in case the slabs had shifted, leaving an edge that someone could trip over. Vigilance was everything, to prevent possible accident, but mainly to avoid compensation claims.
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Post by prodigal gardener on Aug 16, 2007 19:20:11 GMT
Wee T is quite right-- The council are just covering themselves Just in case she sues them for any injury caused. This is 'Compensation State' gone mad--unfortunately. Just like the "banning playing conkers in school"- Tree climbing etc. Can others think of other instances? I know they banned "Tag" or "Chase" in some schools, as it could get aggressive and lead to bullying. Also, a child running away might fall over...... And, even crazier, "Kiss-chase" was deemed to be Sexual Harrassment!!!! NEVER  You must be kidding - I used to love kiss chase, erm maybe that just sez something about me tho eh !!! think I will shut up now   |
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Post by Biggles on Aug 17, 2007 18:27:39 GMT
Do you know...this thread has made me think about when I'm a crumbly....I hate to think that there may come a time when I can't get into the garden, grow my own veg etc...do OAP care homes have gardening facilities ? a bit of GH therapy would improve the quality of life of many an elderly person doncha think? Not heavy digging or owt...just a bit of pottering....sowing etc.... Thats just what I do now but not in a Care Home just yet but getting ready shortly. Seriously though there are Housing Association/Warden Controlled Homes etc. that do encourage their 'Tenants' who are gardeners to form a group to plant-up and look after the grounds/gardens surrounding the area belonging to them. In our area they have even been awarded "Best garden" in an Annual Garden Competition. ;D  |
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Post by Shrubrose on Aug 17, 2007 18:35:54 GMT
That's brilliant myacer. It is the future - hopefully for people like me that is. None of us want to think about it, but if we're lucky, we'll live for many years and will want a certain quality of life wont we?
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Post by Biggles on Aug 17, 2007 20:14:46 GMT
That's brilliant myacer. It is the future - hopefully for people like me that is. None of us want to think about it, but if we're lucky, we'll live for many years and will want a certain quality of life wont we? I have even 'put my name forward' for one of these Flats Apart from the Community spirit and the many older retired gardeners--there is even a small 'patch' under the bedroom and kitchen window-just large enough to cope with 'ones own little garden when the time comes when you can no longer manage your own garden and help with the communal garden. I understand that the larger areas (ie. Lawns/Hedge-cutting etc.) are maintained by the Garden Maintainance Team. If only there were more of these places for others to enjoy when the time comes! |
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Post by Weeterrier on Aug 17, 2007 22:30:58 GMT
Myacer, you can come live with me, I have a garden big enough for both of us  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2007 7:07:02 GMT
It is compensation culture gone mad isn't it? I can understand why their doing it but surely they could just get her to sign a waiver or something saying she won't sue if anything happens to her?
I work in very large, very famous, old folks home and our pensioners can have an allotment to tend if they want. Obviously they're no where near as large as a traditional one, but more than enough to grow whatever they want.
One chap grows nothing but roses and keeps us all in vases right through the year, another one grows the most magnificent dahlias and others grow fruit and veg which get passed on to the kitchens and me if I'm lucky! I'm still trying to get through the mammoth load of salad stuff I was given on Monday!
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Post by Shrubrose on Aug 18, 2007 7:47:05 GMT
That's so good Sairey. I'm sure it must bring all sorts of benefits - lots to talk about, lots to eat and to look at, some independence. I have horrible memories of older people sat in a circle, fidgeting and so 'in themselves' with no interaction of any kind. Abandoned, springs to mind. Hopefully this is becoming less the case now.
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Post by Weeterrier on Aug 18, 2007 8:42:16 GMT
Sadly, shrubrose, I don't think so. My first Mother-in-law is in a care home which my daughter has to brace herself to visit because of primarily the despair of the residents and also the smell of urine. It is costing £600 per week.
Also, when my daughter was younger, she used to work at a very fancy care home as a volunteer at weekends, as she loves old people. After a few months, she was "sacked" for becoming too friendly and involved with the residents. The result of sending them birthday cards, taking them flowers and little gifts etc.,
When one resident died, his daughter sought her out, as she thought she might like her father's walking stick. (she also got a lovely gift)
It is difficult still to find a decent home where people can retain their dignity.
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Post by Biggles on Aug 18, 2007 11:04:57 GMT
This article in the Morning Paper--Headline with
"He sold up for care--now he faces eviction from Nursing Home"
Part of the story is--"A frail grandfather sold his flat to pay for Nursing care--handed over £40,000--Now the money has run-out ,he faces eviction and could be made homeless. He has suffered three severe heart attacks and is not considered frail enough to qualify for Nursing care. The Council have offered him as an alternative of a third floor flat.
Now this is Nanny State gone mad!!!
Sire, Shrub rose and wee terrier --I only wish this Nanny State were run by Kind caring people like you--and the many others out there with the same attitude of older people.
Now that is my Whinge for the day--
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Post by Shrubrose on Aug 18, 2007 14:49:19 GMT
I'm apologising in advance here because I'm going to go off on one now. So please avoid this post if you dont want to listen to my rant. You have been warned Well you know, it is something we should all think about because if we are lucky we will live to a ripe old age. We have no guarantee that we will be cared for by our nearest and dearest for any number of reasons - they haven't the room, or can't afford to or haven't the necessary skills, sad to say the time or even possibly the inclination. Who knows? And good quality care does cost. So forgive me wt, £600 is not a lot to house, feed and care for someone. If you think about it, it would cost far more than that in a decent hotel for a week's stay and then you'd only get bed and breakfast and clean laundry. Many of these care homes are staffed by unqualified staff, the turnover is high because wages are low and training is often poor or non-existent. Increasingly, more and more older people will be cared for by the 'independent sector' because the NHS just cannot afford to. And it's a scary thought. Just this week some MP or other was expressing concern that the human rights of older people are just not visible. Just to balance this a little, there are a number of care homes out there that do provide very good quality care (as Sairey has identified) and if anyone is in the position of having to find care for a loved one, your local PCT or Local Authority will be able to provide you with a list of homes. You can also ask them for reports of routine inspections undertaken into the quality of care provided. Anyway, I've stepped down from my soap box now. Business as usual from often-flippant Shrub. xxx |
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Post by Weeterrier on Aug 18, 2007 16:40:22 GMT
No Shrub, everything you say is true. No need to apologise about caring.
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Post by nightowl on Aug 18, 2007 17:28:14 GMT
As Shrub says, if ever you are in the position of having to find a Care Home, get a list of approved ones, and visit them, and have a good look and a good sniff.
I did this for the one my Mum is in now, and all I could smell was dinner, and it smelled good. There may not be a lot they can do about activities. I know for a fact that my Mum refused to get involved in anything like singing or exercising, and would become very aggressive if they tried to "jolly" her along.
I'm really surprised at £ 600 or more for a Care Home. My Mum is now in Nursing Care (much more expensive than just Residential Care), and the cost has only just recently gone up to £600, and that's in an expensive part of the country, in an extremely good home.
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Post by 4pygmies on Aug 20, 2007 6:00:45 GMT
I used to be a gardener for an Old People's Home in Letchworth. It was a fantastic old established garden and part of my job was to involve the residents as much as possible with the planning and designing. I have to say I learnt a great deal from them and thoroughly enjoyed the job. Sadly the whole place was flattened and replaced by flats when the whole business of caring for the elderly went private.
You hear these dreadful horror stories about what should be a final caring home for the most frail and vunerable members of our society and it is a disgrace that it is happening in our supposedly civilised and wealthy country.....my mother lives next door to me and will NEVER be in that position as far as I and my sister (who lives here too) are concerned. We are lucky to be able to care for her. As far as I'm concerned she is the best loved centre of my family and, after a lifetime's care of us, it is our duty and pleasure to now look after her. It's a terrifying thought that our society as a whole cannot do the same for less fortunate elderly citizens. Shrubrose is spot on in her comments. If only the Government and politicians felt the same.....their brains seem to shrivel when they get into any position of power.....
What a sad irony that a "Nanny state" means something so contrary to what it should mean...
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?? 
, and should be ashamed of themselves!!! 
;D
