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Post by andy on Jan 17, 2008 15:47:10 GMT
Ever since i started keeping tropical fish some 30 years ago, i have been fascinated by the Siamese fighter (Betta splendens) Indiginous to south east Asia where it lives in paddy fields and slow moving streams, the wild form is a long way off the long finned, gaudy varieties available today. Called the fighting fish because two males will fight to the death. Bets were placed and fighting fish were put to war against each other many years ago as they used to with cock fighting. Females, which are short finned and drab compared to males are generally peaceful and will live happily together. Anyways, with the invention of the internet, more information is now available to help with breeding...which isn't difficult. The male builds a nest out of bubbles which he makes using an organ called a labyrinth which is behind his gills. he tends and guards the eggs and babies until they are free swimming. So i have set up a small fish tank to keep male fighters in. They don't need a lot of room so the tank (24 x 9 x 9") houses a heater, two small filters and 4 x 5 litre mineral water bottles which have been cut down and holes put in the sides. I can put one male in each...they can then see the other males but not get to them and the fin and gill flaring and general "threats" to their rivals is incredible. I have 4 males at the moment...a red, a blue and a white veil tal and a new turquoise crown tail male which i bought today. No doubt there will be more to follow when i can get more heaters and filters and tanks etc. Here's a pic i took yesterday.   |
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Post by snowowl on Jan 17, 2008 15:58:28 GMT
Have seen these fish in the shop i go to Andy they have 1 male in each tank. They are increadibly lovey fish its a shame they have to be so agressive to each other.  |
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Post by andy on Jan 17, 2008 15:59:51 GMT
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Post by andy on Jan 17, 2008 16:40:32 GMT
And another stunning male crowntail  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2008 17:04:37 GMT
Wow, andy, they are beautiful  |
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Post by Plocket on Jan 17, 2008 17:41:33 GMT
Wow what amazing fish! Are you keeping yours in different tanks if they are so agressive?
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Post by andy on Jan 17, 2008 17:50:43 GMT
They're all in their own 5 litre bottle so they can see each other but not touch
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Post by Amo on Jan 17, 2008 18:16:42 GMT
My Grampy had them! They used to bang their heads so hard on the division in the tank it made you wince!!
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Post by dirtyboots on Jan 17, 2008 18:33:23 GMT
They are beautiful Andy,pity they have to fight each other though (boys eh!)  |
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Post by nightowl on Jan 17, 2008 18:57:44 GMT
Gorgeous things What a shame you can't keep them together  PS How do they breed them? (or is it different when love is in the air - er...water?) |
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Post by Plocket on Jan 17, 2008 19:03:17 GMT
oh I see now, the bottles are in the one tank! I must have been having a blonde moment!!! ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2008 19:29:00 GMT
Gorgeous things What a shame you can't keep them together PS How do they breed them? (or is it different when love is in the air - er...water?) It's only the males that fight each other NO. Females will live happily together and so will males & females. FA x |
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Post by andy on Jan 17, 2008 20:19:50 GMT
Gorgeous things What a shame you can't keep them together PS How do they breed them? (or is it different when love is in the air - er...water?) Breeding can be unpredictable. You have to get the fish into breeding condition first by feeding them lots of live food. The potential parents are kept apart at this point. Then, you put the male in the breeding tank....a small 5 gallon tank is enough with about 6" of water in. There must be no gravel or anything else on the bottom, a small bubble filter, heater set to about 84 degrees F and somewhere for the female to hid (cave of some kind). There can also be some floating plants and some kind of "raft" for the male to anchor his nest on....a piece of bubble wrap or a plastic cup cut in half will do. The female is then placed in a glass jar in the breeding tank...so they can see but not touch. The male will start to build his bubble nest around the raft....this nest may be a few suds or a nest 6" x 6". The male will be furiously displaying to the female and if ready, the female will display verticle bands around her abdomen and will be very obviously full of eggs. The female is gently let loose...taking care not to disturb the nest...this is when the fun can start. Sometimes, after a brief bit of nipping and nudging from the male, the female will join him under the nest. Sometimes, she might not be ready to spawn and her life will be in danger. If she's not ready, the male will viciously attack her and she must be removed and re-conditioned. But if she's ready, the embrace and the male squeezes the eggs from her, fertilizing them as they fall to the floor. he then picks all the eggs up in his mouth and pops them in the bubble nest. This is repeated until the female has lost all her eggs. She is then chased away and will be killed if not removed. The male then guards the eggs....rebuilding any parts of the nest that "pop" and popping any stray eggs back in. The eggs hatch after approx 24 hours and the fry are tiny. They become free swimming after a further 24 hours and the male must then be removed or he will eat the babies. Babies must be fed micro food...infusoria (single celled bacteria type bugs) are ideal for a day or two before moving on to newly hatched brine shrimp and microworms. As the babies grow, care must be taken to watch out for developing males as they will soon start to squabble. They must be put into individual jars and grown on singly. So there it is....a bit long winded but well worth the time, money and effort. |
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Post by nightowl on Jan 18, 2008 11:52:03 GMT
Blimey Andy!  What a to do!! ;D That's amazing! I thought it was only Sea-horses where Dad takes charge of egg and baby care!  |
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Post by andy on Jan 18, 2008 12:53:13 GMT
I thought it was only Sea-horses where Dad takes charge of egg and baby care! No there's many many fish where the dad will take charge of the eggs....some cichlids for example, the male will incubate the eggs in his mouth and who could forget the humble stickleback in out little streams and ponds....the male does all the work there ! |
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Post by snowowl on Jan 18, 2008 15:23:20 GMT
Are you going to have a go at breeding them Andy?I know how fasanating it is.
I felt the same when i had my first success at breeding angels.It was not easy everything had to be right but when i finaly managed to get some babys i was over the moon it certainly is a amazing thing to watch.
Has you may know angels can be rarther agressive to at mating time.
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Post by andy on Jan 18, 2008 15:31:06 GMT
Yeah...i've bred angels almost on a commercial basis but i raised the fry myself rather than letting the parents do it. Yes....definately going to have a go at breeding them. Females are quite hard to come by because they're too dull and no body wants them but i know a shop that has a few at the moment. I've got a spare little tank and i've just bought a new heater so i'm almost ready to go. All i've got to wait for is my baby food otherwise they'll starve to death !!! Pics to follow  |
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Post by snowowl on Jan 18, 2008 15:48:15 GMT
Looking foward to them.   |
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Post by andy on Jan 18, 2008 16:17:27 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2008 17:04:42 GMT
IMO what you are doing is cruel Andy, males shouldn't be kept in the same tank, and restricting individual fish in 5 litre bottles so that you can witness their gill flaring threat displays is cruel and causes tremendous stress for the fish.
Can the fish you have in the bottles get to the surface to breath?
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Post by andy on Jan 19, 2008 19:22:38 GMT
I'm afraid you can shove your opinion Rita until you learn a little more about the species and keeping fish in general No the fish can't get to the surface to breathe....i suffocate them on purpose. OF COURSE THEY CAN GET TO THE SURFACE...THEY ARE A MEMBER OF THE ANABANTID FAMILY WHICH NEED TO BREATHE ATMOSPHERIC AIR. You see...i've done a little research on them ---------------------------------------------------------------- Now got 2 tanks set up...bought another 3 gorgeous crowntail males today and 3 females. FYI Rita, the females have the run of the tanks and the males can see them. This does not turn males into sexual deviants who go out and rape other fish. FFS |
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Post by madonplants on Feb 1, 2008 10:46:03 GMT
IMO what you are doing is cruel Andy, males shouldn't be kept in the same tank, and restricting individual fish in 5 litre bottles so that you can witness their gill flaring threat displays is cruel and causes tremendous stress for the fish. Can the fish you have in the bottles get to the surface to breath? Sadly this is what breeders do with the males. I have seen them in shops, in jars next to one another. It's not my cup of tea, though! I tried to breed them once, using just one male and a couple of females, but think the one male I had was batting for the other side. The females just ripped him to bits. I had to eventually put him in another tank, until he died of old age. How is it going with them, Andy? Keith |
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Post by andy on Feb 13, 2008 14:22:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2008 14:42:10 GMT
andy, you scally!  So am I right in assuming that you are now a fish pimp?! |
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Post by Plocket on Feb 13, 2008 18:58:41 GMT
Andy PLEASE tell me you are joking!
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Post by andy on Feb 13, 2008 19:04:07 GMT
Andy PLEASE tell me you are joking! Nope...after the replies above insinuating that i was cruel, i though i might as well just go for it. |
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Post by Plocket on Feb 13, 2008 19:05:47 GMT
I'm gob-smacked!
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Post by andy on Feb 13, 2008 19:10:06 GMT
So you should be....especially if you can be bothered to read the link i posted |
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Post by Plocket on Feb 13, 2008 19:15:22 GMT
Don't start on me Andy!
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Post by andy on Feb 13, 2008 19:29:53 GMT
Or what....will you leave the forum ;D
I see you have blocked me from sending PMs to you. Shame as i was going to continue this on pm seeing as you can't be arsed to read the link i posted about the successful spawning i had today despite me being the cruellest person on this earth according to Rita and Keith.
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What a to do!! ;D That's amazing!
