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Post by Plocket on Nov 13, 2007 8:12:30 GMT
On AutumnWatch last night (Monday 12th November) Bill and Kate were talking about the beavers and the damage they'd done to the trees since the summer. They also talked about the possible re-introduction of them to the UK.
Whilst it would be nice to reintroduce beavers into our country I do wonder whether people are thinking about this properly. The damage to trees would be immense, and haven't they already learned the hard way with grey squirrels? I do also wonder why their numbers deminished to nonexistent in this country anyway - was it man or nature?
So do you think beavers should be re-introduced into the UK, or do you think we should concentrate on protecting our native species that are already in danger (I'm thinking red squirrels in particular)?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2007 8:37:39 GMT
Not sure P - I would need to know for sure if it was mans doing that caused them to disappear before I voted.
With regard to red squirrels they will continue to decline until someone has the b***s to exterminate all the grey ones!
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Post by nightowl on Nov 13, 2007 9:24:45 GMT
The more the merrier I say!! ( and that includes the Wild Boar!) Plenty of our native species cause damage problems (deer for example), we have to learn to deal with it in ways that keep both animals and humans happy. Also, where do you draw a line on what are native species? You might say that we should not encourage and protect the Dormouse because it is not native, but who would like to see those little cuties wiped out! Some might say we would be better off without the Grey Squirrel and the Rabbit (brought by the Romans) but wouldn't we miss the sight of them in our woods and fields!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2007 10:18:18 GMT
The more the merrier I say!! ( and that includes the Wild Boar!) Plenty of our native species cause damage problems (deer for example), we have to learn to deal with it in ways that keep both animals and humans happy. Also, where do you draw a line on what are native species? You might say that we should not encourage and protect the Dormouse because it is not native, but who would like to see those little cuties wiped out! Some might say we would be better off without the Grey Squirrel and the Rabbit (brought by the Romans) but wouldn't we miss the sight of them in our woods and fields! Not at the expense of our truly native vegetarian red squirrel nightowl!
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Post by nightowl on Nov 13, 2007 10:24:32 GMT
Not at the expense of, no, but the Grey lives in lots of habitat that the Red would not be happy in anyway
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Post by Weeterrier on Nov 13, 2007 11:53:22 GMT
I'd have to say yes, I'm afraid. If I had badgers visiting my garden, I would be besides myself with excitement and joy. I even like the bloody deer, and they chew everything in sight
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Post by carolann on Nov 13, 2007 13:18:10 GMT
I have to say yes also but we should look after what we have got as well and stop destroying their natural habitats. As for the Grey's they are a pest but I would miss them. I am very lucky where I live because we have Deer, Foxes, Rabbits, Pheasants, Grouse and Partridge as well as Badgers with lots of other rodents and a wide range of birds. At school I was told that nature always had a way of balancing out it's self. As Rita asks did man cause the Beaver to disappear? I don't know that but we should give it a chance to come back. As for the Wild Boar the woods and Forrest where they are should have warnings about them attaching dogs when they have young, but then the owners should keep them under control and if they get hurt then its their own fault.
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Post by Plocket on Nov 13, 2007 17:55:13 GMT
Thank you so much for all your replies. I'm still sitting on the fence with this one I'm afraid. I agree that consideration should be made as to why beavers became extinct in the UK but I also think that nature will balance out if we give it a chance. However I do worry about them becoming so comfortable that they will perhaps cause the demise of other creatures living in our country: the poor little water vole and inland otters are already very low in numbers. And we could also lose native trees - lets face it there aren't enough trees on this planet already, let alone after a pack of beavers have had a go at them! Don't get me wrong I'm not anti-beavers, but I think it needs a lot of consideration before they are re-introduced. Oh and I'm thrilled that Wild Boar are back in the Uk but wouldn't mind knowing how that happened. It's not been done officially apparently And although I don't want a major cull on grey squirrels, I think more should be done to try and protect and even encourage red squirrels. So does anyone know why beavers disappeared from the UK?
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Post by Plocket on Nov 13, 2007 17:57:44 GMT
Oooooo I've just found this: The European Beaver (Castor fiber) was hunted almost to extinction in Europe, both for fur and for castoreum, a secretion of its scent gland believed to have medicinal properties. However, the beaver is now being re-introduced throughout Europe. Several thousand live on the Elbe, the Rhone and in parts of Scandinavia. A thriving community lives in north east Poland, and the European Beaver also returned to the Morava River banks in Slovakia and the Czech Republic. They have been reintroduced in Bavaria, The Netherlands and Serbia (Zasavica bog) and are spreading to new locations.
The beaver became extinct in Great Britain in the sixteenth century: Giraldus Cambrensis reported in 1188 (Itinerarium ii.iii) that it was to be found only in the Teifi in Wales and in one river in Scotland, though his observations are clearly first hand. In October 2005, six European beavers were re-introduced to Britain in Lower Mill Estate in Gloucestershire; in July of 2007 a colony of four European beavers was established at Martin Mere in Lancashire, and there are plans for re-introductions in Scotland and Wales.
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Post by oldmoleskins on Nov 13, 2007 18:08:59 GMT
I was initially attracted to the idea - until they showed the 'before and after' pics of the beaver ponds and surroundings... and wonder now if they could be managed, we don't really have the wilderness to accommodate them and their hugely destructive nature, do we?
OM.
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Post by Shrubrose on Nov 13, 2007 19:42:35 GMT
I was initially attracted to the idea - until they showed the 'before and after' pics of the beaver ponds and surroundings... and wonder now if they could be managed, we don't really have the wilderness to accommodate them and their hugely destructive nature, do we? OM. Apologies for being flippant OM but are we talking about beavers or human beings!!!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2007 10:12:54 GMT
Yes beavers were exterminated by man - we used to hunt them for their fur and their scent gland that had medicinal properties as it is rich in salicylic acid (from willow trees and today used in aspirin). Introducing the native European beaver is a good idea. Lots of nature conservation people are very keen to do this - beavers make excellent woodland managers. Introducing the American beaver (featured on Autumn Watch) to Britain would indeed be like introducing the grey squirrel. It is not native, has very different habits to the European beaver and would be destructive. In comparison the European beaver fits well: - It is native.
- It cuts down woody material that is usually less than 10cm in diameter (less wide than my wrist). This improves biodiversity.
- It does not alter watercourses or cause folooding.
- It's dams are lower than the stream's banks and usually only a couple of inches tall - just enough to ensure drinking water in drought years. Most years they don't even make a dam.
Conservation work often involves mimicking the actions and effects of large herbivores. Where we can get native animals to do the work for us its great. Lets get beavers back on the team to join rare old cattle breeds and native pony species carrying out extensive grazing conservation work for us - getting on with life for them. S
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Post by snowowl on Dec 11, 2007 10:20:46 GMT
I have to say yes to P i am pleased they have been bought back. I can see were you are coming from about their destructive nature but Bill and Kate said i does not harm the enviroment. They do a good job according to them so im pleased that we have them again in the UK.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2007 10:33:51 GMT
Oh and dormice are natives!
They are species of ancient woodlands. Once called the common dormouse their name has been changed to reflect their no longer common status - They are now the Hazel Dormouse, Muscardinus avellanarius.
The edible dormouse, Glis glis, which is grey and a lot larger is an introduced species not widely found in the UK.
The native dormouse is protected by law.
Hazel dormice benefit from a diverse woodland structure - just the sort of thing a beaver can help with. Beavers can coppice young trees and maintain small areas where light can reach the under-storey thus allowing hazel and hawthorn to blossom and fruit. In turn providing food and habitat for dormice.
It all works.
In woodland areas on the continent where nature has been "left to itself" there is no natural forest regeneration occurring. The thing that is found to be missing from nature in their mix is large (and medium sized) mammals.
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Post by Plocket on Dec 11, 2007 11:15:16 GMT
Now you see I'm quite happy about dormice, but I'm still not convinced about beavers
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Post by Spruance on Dec 11, 2007 14:15:03 GMT
No I don't feel that beavers should be reintroduced as the country no longer has sufficient wild areas to support them. In a reserve perhaps, as with the wolves in Scotland but not on 'general release'!
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Post by piggingardener on Dec 11, 2007 15:23:30 GMT
I would much rather see the re-introduction of beavers than having to put up with many of the species which have been introduced. I'm not thinking here of rabbits, muntjacs or eagle owls, but mink. Mink were released into the wild by misguided animal rights campaigners who obviously had no idea of the damage this would cause. Mink are vicious predators who are largely responsible for the demise of many of our water voles. Grey squirrels will adapt to many environments that the red squirrels avoid, but they also take over the red squirrels domain and are the main cause of their extinction in many areas of the UK.
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