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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2006 15:56:15 GMT
My latin is hopeless  Didn't do it at school. So, would it be too much to ask, that both the latin name and common name for plants are used?  It would help me a great deal if both were given - I do understand why latin names are important and I realise that there can be many common names for the same plant. |
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Post by Spruance on Sept 9, 2006 16:03:16 GMT
My latin is hopeless Didn't do it at school. So, would it be too much to ask, that both the latin name and common name for plants are used? It would help me a great deal if both were given - I do understand why latin names are important and I realise that there can be many common names for the same plant. Hi Rita, Yes, that's a good idea. I must say that I am guilty of only using Latin names. I didn't do Latin at school, although it was an option. I only wish now that I had. I only know the plant names from picking them up as I go on. There is quite a lot of basic information in the botanical names of plants, such as leaf colour or shape etc. Unfortunately, a lot of this is lost on me. I suppose I should try to make the effort to pick up on the basic terms. Spruance |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2006 18:34:16 GMT
Ok Botanist head going on here.
Scientific names for plants (incorrectly called Latin names) are a mixture of many languages - lots of Latin is used but possibly just as much Greek, ans a smattering of other languages including peoples names.
Personally I detest the use of common names as they can be so misleading.
I would suggest you get hold of a book called Gardeners Latin, or
Latin for Gardeners, either will give you a good basic grounding, and as they say 'if you can't beat 'em join 'em'.
Sorry I won't be using common names.
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Post by Spruance on Sept 9, 2006 20:01:47 GMT
Mmmm,
I tend to use the 'scientific' names, because those are the ones that I have learned. Then again, I see no reason not to use the common names as well (when I can remember to do so) if it helps newbies to learn the 'proper' names.
So how about something like...
quercus (oak)
or
holly (ilex)
Just to help the likes of Rita to pick up the correct terminology. To do otherwise is to be like the League of Gentlemen. Instead of "Are you Local?" Will it be "Are you a Botanist?" "There's nothing for you here!" "Only scientific names used here!" ;D
Spruance
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2006 20:10:35 GMT
Fine.
I just thought that being a botanist might be useful on gardening boards - it gives another insight.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2006 21:11:25 GMT
Thank you Spruance - if both terms were used it would help me learn I have most of the Expert books by Dr. D. G. Hessayon, the indexes list plants in both ways But another book I have, only lists the scientific/latin names. I listen to Gardeners Question Time quite often, the panel use both terms which I find most helpful. Dee - could I just say that many novice gardeners don't have a clue and surely come to boards like this for help, encouragement and to increase their knowledge. Baffling someone with science or scientific terms won't help. Strange how most of us only refer to garden birds by their common names though - the Robin - Erithacus rubecula, the Blackbird - Turdus merula and the Blue tit - Parus caeruleus |
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Post by Chuckles on Sept 9, 2006 21:14:41 GMT
Fine. I just thought that being a botanist might be useful on gardening boards - it gives another insight. I too am not familiar with the Latin/Scientific names of plants, some times I can't remember the common name  , . Like Rita I realise that latin/scientific names are important. When ever I have asked for help on a particular plant I try to make sure I have used both names if I know both. I thought sharing expertise/knowledge was what these boards were about |
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Post by Jonah on Sept 9, 2006 21:56:57 GMT
I think I know more common garden plants by their botanical name rather than common name, but have got a long way to go. It's a bit like trying to learn a new language, and at my age it aint easy! Plus so many of them are hard to spell and write...
I often find it helpful to see both, it helps my learning proccess, but agree the more we use botanical names, the easier it will be in the long run to use them naturally.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2006 23:11:20 GMT
Dee - could I just say that many novice gardeners don't have a clue and surely come to boards like this for help, encouragement and to increase their knowledge. Baffling someone with science or scientific terms won't help. Sorry Rita, we've had this conversation before, if I remember correctly. It seems as if you think I do it deliberately by saying "Baffling someone with science or scientific terms won't help." I rarely use common names, my grandfather was a professional gardener and started my teaching early and my trainiing re-inforced it, in fact I know only a few common names, and don't see why I should start learning them now, when I find them too confusing and almost useless to me just to please others. I feel I can and do contribute, encourage and help enough with the knowledge I do have, sorry if you don't feel that's good enough. You seem not to like my way of doing things so maybe we had just better disagree and leave it at that. |
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Post by 4pygmies on Sept 10, 2006 7:16:04 GMT
Surely there's room for both. I completely understand why Dee uses the correct names , a professional would obviously prefer too, but the common names are so beautiful and have levels of meaning within them too. As a complete amateur with a longstanding interest in plants and their uses I know many of them by both and enjoy the challenge of trying to remember them all! And I must admit, I am wary of making an a**e of myself by saying the correct name wrong! Dee's posts are always informative and interesting and her professional status makes her views more authoritative but whatever nomenclature (sp?am I being an a**e again!) we decide to use, we're all here because we LOVE plants.
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Post by Spruance on Sept 10, 2006 7:36:53 GMT
Well said 4P,
Having now just reviewed my earlier post this on this topic, I think that I could perhaps have worded it better. So apologies to Dee for any offence caused.
Yes, Dee is a professional botanist and we are very fortunate to have access to her knowledge via these boards. Then again, some people are just starting out as new gardeners, and not just in the MB sense. Anyone from a non-gardening background might not have encountered the scientific names before, but would probably know the common names.
As I've said, I do find it difficult to remember to use common names on the MB, and in some cases this will be because I don't know them. Still, I will try to use them as and when possible, memory and (lack of) knowledge excepted.
Spruance
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Post by jlottie on Sept 10, 2006 8:01:07 GMT
I am learning lots of names from this MB whether it be scientific/common names, which is great ;D If I don't recognise which plant is being mentioned I just google. Only thing is, I end up finding lots of nurseries to buy even more plants from  |
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Post by toonia on Sept 10, 2006 10:29:47 GMT
I don't think there's any controversy here. I use either the common or botanical name depending on the situation.
Like 4P I think many of the common names are evocative and were given to describe the supposed properties of plants -self-heal, eyebright, lungwort etc. Some of them are charming -lady's mantle, granny's bonnets, foxgloves....
I had to familiarise myself with the "real" names here to be understood, a lot of common names don't translate exactly although the French prefer them and it makes tracking down a plant harder!
It is a lot to learn, it IS another language, whichever way you're doing it. It would be good if people who know both use both as Spruance suggested and then we can pick them up as we go along.
There. Have I managed to agree with everyone?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2006 10:56:14 GMT
The common and the Latin names are valuable and surely it's good to know both. Why not use the name(s) you know and try to learn the ones you don't. Everybody learns something that way, so we are all winners!!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2006 12:27:47 GMT
On balance, it seems to make sense to use the scientific names (having said that, I've just posted a message referring simply to 'canna lilies'). There are wide geographical variations in the use of common names, even in the English-speaking world (e.g. between the UK and Ireland), and the same common name is sometimes used to refer to a wide range of plants. But, given that most newbie gardeners start off only knowing the common names, please put up with us while we learn ... cheers ... |
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Post by sweetleaf on Sept 11, 2006 9:56:56 GMT
A lot of GC`s are guilty of dumbing down, some plants arent even given a name, recently I was given twelve plants for my birthday and of those, only three had names, the rest just had labels saying "foliage plant" At the risk of sounding ungrateful, the plants were Cr***y, badly looked after and barely clinging to life.
How are you supposed to look after a plant if you arent given even the slightest bit of information? Scientific names give clues as to habit, flower colour and leaf shape and often country of origin.
There is a beginners "taster" of scientific names on AT`s How to be a gardener "over there" which is fun, its a shame its such a small taste !
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2006 10:48:25 GMT
If those who know both could use them, it would be invaluable to numpties like me who are very much just staring out on the gardening yellow brick road! I try to use them in the written form if I know them ... bit scared about the pronunciation sometimes though!
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Post by beejay on Sept 11, 2006 15:07:36 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2006 16:05:38 GMT
Thanks for that beejay I think it will be very useful |
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Post by oldmoleskins on Sept 13, 2006 17:01:00 GMT
second that beejay, I've just tested it - spot on - and bookmarked it. I'll alert Welshblue and get it added to our 'links'. Sounds like it could be very useful here...
OM
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Post by beejay on Sept 13, 2006 17:02:46 GMT
Oh good, I'm glad it works.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2006 17:47:16 GMT
I'm one of those that uses both names but this depends on who I'm talking to. If it's a novice I tend to use the common name although I once had a disagreement with a friend about 'Snow in summer' = we were talking about completely different plants. I find it easier to point out strawberry foxgloves rather than digitalis mertonensis.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2006 21:06:17 GMT
The reason I have problems, is that since 1973 (when I married my lovely husband) we have been moving around the UK and Germany with the RAF - this is our 25th home So I have had to "make do" with what ever was planted in the married quarter garden, which wasn't much in most cases  Most of my gardening had involved annuals, plus a few perennials which would be happy in pots and not mind being transported from one end of the country to the other in a removals lorry. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2006 18:18:07 GMT
Regarding the use of scientific names I LOVE learning the meanings. So far I am mostly learning colours, and sometimes growth habit, but to see a label and know that the plant is white, blue or yellow, or ground hugging without having to try and translate the back of the label....well, I feel quite chuffed. I always use the scientific name once I have learned it but thats as far as it goes, and I really need the common description to be sure.
I hadn't really noticed the different uses of plant names because I have to google everything anyway to identify or understand a plant......but ...if I had my time again...I would love to be a Botanist.
Wx
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, . Like Rita I realise that latin/scientific names are important. When ever I have asked for help on a particular plant I try to make sure I have used both names if I know both.
