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Post by oldmoleskins on Sept 14, 2006 20:57:21 GMT
I want to "insure" the apricot scented rose, the search for whose identity was to some extent germane to the start of GW and is on the 'front cover' still.
I've got a general idea of how to take rose cuttings, but would welcome any advice and, in particular advice on this point:
I understand roses are commonly grafted onto rootstocks. I can't tell whether my one is - it's too old and gnarled to tell. If it was, will any successful cutting be 'true' and provide a new source of the roses I treasure?
OM
ps, not sure if we ever really identified it, but a neighbour has some very like it - "Norwich Castle".
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Post by Chuckles on Sept 14, 2006 21:13:33 GMT
I have been very lucky with Rose cuttings and have just followed normal cutting rules. Have had success from heal joints and cuttings just below a leaf joint. I have used 50/50 course sand and compost and also garden soil both in tall pots. Least success with cuttings placed straight in to the ground.
Have you thought of e.mailing a pic to some of the Rose Companies to see if they could help with the name, it would be nice to find out.
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Post by chickadeedeedee on Sept 15, 2006 2:04:39 GMT
Cuttings from your rose will be true to whatever is growing above the graft. If it is a grafted plant, the new roses you grow may not be as hardy as the original plant because they do not have the hardier grafted roots. I have tried growing cuttings in pots and babying them by applying rooting hormone powder on the cut stem prior to planting plus increased humidity, lighting and bottom heat. Few survived. My best luck is by taking cuttings and just sticking them in the garden soil in a semi sunny area with even waterings. Nearly 100% will root for me with this laziest of gardening methods. www.heirloomroses.com may be able to help you with your rose ID. C3D |
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Post by Rosefriend on Sept 15, 2006 12:19:34 GMT
Can I come in on this one please?
OM I think that you would know if the rose was bud grafted but the bud graft should be about 5cm underground anyway. In an older rose I would expect it to be deeper. Except of course on standard roses. On a guess I would assume that it is bud grafted as most commercially sold roses have been throughout the years. If you do want to graft, the new plant will only be as good as the plant it is being grafted to. As I have said about David Austin Roses, he uses a type of wild rose to graft that is not hardy enough for the temperatures here in Germany. However whatever wild rose is used - it must be top quality.
Personally I wouldn't mess about with a T-cut and graft at all. Try and take hardwood cuttings - far more than you need as with other plants that you are trying to propagate. If you want to know how I will tell you how I do it. You may have luck and have a load of roses for all your friends as presents. You might however get none at all to start with.
I think that with so many things - it is the luck of the draw at times. Many cuttings that I have just chucked into water and not worried about have done a lot better than ones I have been messing around with and caring for.
Hardwood cuttings will always come true to the plant that you have taken them off. OK having said that you could get a sport but it isn't likely if you have seen it flowering.
I think we all have our favourite methods and it works for us and not for others. I know gardeners that have developed their own methods....
Rosefriend
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Post by oldmoleskins on Sept 15, 2006 12:41:07 GMT
Well... BB, CD3 that's an interesting spread of technique to try, and Rosefriend, yes, if you could - your hardwood cuttings approach?
That thing about chucking in water is soooo true; on this week's Gardeners' Question Time the panel were very doubtful about cuttings from figs - "no chance" in effect, "try layering instead".
I've only ever tried with fig once, pruned the tree back hard, thought it seemed a waste of material just to burn it and took a couple of dozen cuttings and poked them in a pot and forgot them.... 3, 4 months later all but one had rooted!
I checked the bucket - now filled with rainwater - where the 'discard cuttings' were left, and sure enough, one of those had rooted too!
OM
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Post by Rosefriend on Sept 15, 2006 13:04:06 GMT
I have tried cuttings in the ground and because of outdoor temperatures it just won't work - except if I had a heated greenhouse and we haven't - haven't even got an unheated now - used to have.
I take hardwood cuttings and put them into pots , peat and sand, keeping them moist and cool.
Far better for me are semi-ripe cuttings which I take in late summer - I always think that end of August is good - there are still taking water in and the shoots are still a bit soft. I do this before I give them there annual Magnesium to harden the shoots for winter.
OK - take sideshoots - should still be green and cut off where it is just starting to be woody. Cut down to 8 to 10 cms as in one would for hardwood cuttings - all leaves off etc. Put into pots, peat and sand, bag over the pots and keep moist and keep them cool all winter. Plant outside the following year. I do better this way.
All roses that have a complex parentage are difficult. Miniature roses are easy things to propagate. Obviously always take a lot of cuttings.
Roses that are from cuttings do not have suckers. However other roses can be a bit less vigourous and be slow starters.
Rosefriend
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Post by magrich on Oct 9, 2006 14:30:12 GMT
I am with C3D on this one........when I prune roses, I stick the prunings in the ground and leave them to get on with it!
My sister in law has now got a lovely rose garden for free.
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Post by fozzie on Nov 1, 2006 18:03:00 GMT
"All roses that have a complex parentage are difficult" I do not understand this, why should the parantage affect whether the cutting will strike or not?
Foz
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Post by Rosefriend on Nov 2, 2006 16:55:58 GMT
"All roses that have a complex parentage are difficult" I do not understand this, why should the parantage affect whether the cutting will strike or not? Foz Hi Foz, I was afraid that someone would ask that - well all I can tell you is that in a complex parentage - the chromosome numbers are also complex and apparently this stops a lot of the roses rooting easily or rooting at all. When I learnt that I did ask my gardener and he just told me to accept it unless I wanted a hour long chemistry lesson. He did assure me that it is true and told me to try it out. Well I did and one or two roses wouldn't root at all. This is all a long time ago now and I have thrown my notes away, - and as much as I love Roses and gardening I wasn't going to go into it professionally, and therefore I saw no point in messing about with it. Rosefriend |
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Post by Chuckles on Nov 6, 2006 17:54:39 GMT
Many cuttings that I have just chucked into water and not worried about have done a lot better than ones I have been messing around with and caring for. RF I've been cutting some long top growth of a climber today and have put some in a bucket of water and put them behind the GH, fingers crossed.  Did you have any luck finding out the name of your Apricot rose OMS |
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Post by Rosefriend on Nov 6, 2006 18:01:57 GMT
Oh Busy Bee - good luck
I did that once and had 10 Roses in the end - made great presents after a couple of years.
Rosefriend
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Post by oldmoleskins on Nov 8, 2006 19:53:31 GMT
BB and anyone else who remembers this, no I don't have a reliable ID yet - but learned only recently that the old girl who lived here before us noted most of the planting in her time (30 years) by ticking off plants bought in a gardening book. Her daughter is looking for the book...
OM.
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Post by Chuckles on Nov 8, 2006 20:03:49 GMT
Thats brill news OM hope she does find the book for you, keep us informed. If not you could always christen it Precious Apricot  |
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Post by fozzie on Nov 8, 2006 23:14:12 GMT
I was intrigued by your Norwich issue. Your rose is def not Norwich Castle which is orange. It may well be Norwich Union or as you said elsewhere Arthur Bell. both Norwich Union and Castle were breed by Beales in Norfolk using Arther Bell as a parent. If your close to Attleborough or even that interested anymore you cpould try taking a sample and see if they can ident it for you
This may help and/or muddy the water.
Foz
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Post by oldmoleskins on Nov 9, 2006 8:47:12 GMT
thanks for that fozzie - asit happens we're off to Attleborough in the near future shopping for a woodburner... could tie in nicely.
OM.
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Post by fozzie on Nov 11, 2006 13:17:59 GMT
Just to throw more doubt in the ring and I should have spotted it earlier. Your pictures look like a HT(spit), sorry, I have a thing about them. I don't blame the flower but the breeders. Anyway if it is one of those the it is niether N castle, N Union or in fact Arthur Bell, all of these being Floribundas (another problem with breeders).... But it could be Norwich Cathederal
I off to make some tea before you shout abuse!!
Foz
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Post by oldmoleskins on Nov 11, 2006 13:24:39 GMT
I thought maybe you were on the wrong track when you said Norwich Castle is orange - the examples I've seen aren't... but abuse? on GW? noooo....
There's a current one at 'last rose of summer' today. Any further ID ideas??
OM
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Post by fozzie on Nov 11, 2006 13:51:53 GMT
Your pics do look look like HT (....), does it have large flowers on single stem or multiple flowers,cluster of flowers. If former than it is an HT, which means not those already in the frame. It is def not N. Castle which is copper orange, it gets that hue from "whisky Mac" one of its parents the other being Arthur Bell. If its the latter ie multiple flower than N. Union is a possoibility. Is it over ot under 3ft, sorry could never get the hang of metric at my age!
I'm enjoying this I forgot I had so many old catalogues and books (thanks charity shops)
Foz
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Post by oldmoleskins on Nov 11, 2006 15:59:19 GMT
Foz, sorry, not familiar with rose descriptions, but will do my best:
it is best described as 'multiples' ie it has 2,3 or 4 buds on separate stems arising from the same 'branch' - so certainly not 'singles' and not what I'd call 'clusters'.
It is over 3 feet.
Over to you...
OM.
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Post by fozzie on Nov 11, 2006 18:54:01 GMT
Trying to find your Rose was better than watching England loose again! But then I'll never stop supporting them I've still got scars from the 80's and early 90's .Still Fulham nearly won!!
On the assumption that your Rose is a Floribunda, then N. Union is a strong contenter but we have another .... Mountbatten and yes, it has Arthur B in its parentage.
I'm not very good on modern Roses but if I find any others I'll post them for you
Foz
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