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Post by andy on Jan 14, 2011 18:47:19 GMT
At work, we have a large sunken rose garden which in the past 5 years, has been completelt stripped out, the soil removed down to 12" and new soil added. Over 3,000 David Austin roses were then planted.
Now some of the roses have done well....particularly some of the bigger species roses which are also grown for their hips. But some of the roses haven't done well....they look weak and drop their leaves by mid summer.
We don't have the fascility to water them in dry weather and maintenance can be minimal. But what we do is this time every year is to heavily mulch them with mushroom compost.
I added a thread to the vegetable section and jasmine (i think) mentioned that mushroom compost contains a lot of lime. As the garden sits on pure chalk, i was wondering if this is too much for the roses ?
I don't confess to be an expert on roses but i was under the impression that they were happier in heavy clay soils which retain their moisture. Ours just don't seem happy in areas and i was wondering if they've overdosed on the white stuff.
Any suggestions are welcome....i might be barking up the completely wrong tree.
Andy
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Post by JennyWrenn on Jan 14, 2011 18:53:42 GMT
I cant help you much here Andy only to say my roses thrive in clay soil  I feed them twice a year (oh yes I do FB) with a rose fertiliser |
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Post by andy on Jan 14, 2011 19:03:53 GMT
I always look in peoples gardens as an indicator of what grows where and around where my parents live, it's seriously heavy clay and all the gardens are adorned with superb rose displays. As you get nearer to our house...only about 5 miles away, the soil very quickly turns to thick chalk and the rose displays disappear.
Not that people don't have here, it's just the don't have that...."je ne sais quois" about them.
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Post by Rosefriend on Jan 14, 2011 19:12:50 GMT
At work, we have a large sunken rose garden which in the past 5 years, has been completelt stripped out, the soil removed down to 12" and new soil added. Over 3,000 David Austin roses were then planted. Now some of the roses have done well....particularly some of the bigger species roses which are also grown for their hips. But some of the roses haven't done well....they look weak and drop their leaves by mid summer. We don't have the fascility to water them in dry weather and maintenance can be minimal. But what we do is this time every year is to heavily mulch them with mushroom compost. I added a thread to the vegetable section and jasmine (i think) mentioned that mushroom compost contains a lot of lime. As the garden sits on pure chalk, i was wondering if this is too much for the roses ? I don't confess to be an expert on roses but i was under the impression that they were happier in heavy clay soils which retain their moisture. Ours just don't seem happy in areas and i was wondering if they've overdosed on the white stuff. Any suggestions are welcome....i might be barking up the completely wrong tree. Andy I have been growing roses for over 20 years now Andy and I will say right from the start and be totally honest and say that I find most of David Austin's roses a waste of time. They are bred for their blooms and not for health and vigour. His roses have a very bad reputation on this side of the water and experts (of which I am not one) tend not to buy them unless they are bud grafted on wild roses that can take our climate and even then DA roses tend to be bought by rose lovers that buy just for look and smell. I would suggest that you get the soil tested. The ideal PH level for roses is 6.5 but a good rose can grow happily between around 5.5ph to 7.0ph. Yes roses are better in lime (I have sandy soil) and yes you could have too much calcium...it could also be a calcium/magnesium thing. If the PH level is too low you will get sickly plants, often looking as though they need watering, which they probably don't. I only ever water my roses in the first year and in a heat wave - the older ones I leave to fight for themselves. Losing the leaves is probably Black Spot and I am afraid that DA roses are well known for being bare leaved for the summer.Not all DA rose are bad - of course not, but there are far better breeders in the UK than DA - Harkness for example. As Jenny says and as you know roses are fed twice a year, the last time being no later than July. RF |
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Post by andy on Jan 14, 2011 19:23:49 GMT
I have been growing roses for over 20 years now Andy and I will say right from the start and be totally honest and say that I find most of David Austin's roses a waste of time. They are bred for their blooms and not for health and vigour. His roses have a very bad reputation on this side of the water and experts (of which I am not one) tend not to buy them unless they are bud grafted on wild roses that can take our climate and even then DA roses tend to be bought by rose lovers that buy just for look and smell. I would suggest that you get the soil tested. The ideal PH level for roses is 6.5 but a good rose can grow happily between around 5.5ph to 7.0ph. Yes roses are better in lime (I have sandy soil) and yes you could have too much calcium...it could also be a calcium/magnesium thing. If the PH level is too low you will get sickly plants, often looking as though they need watering, which they probably don't. I only ever water my roses in the first year and in a heat wave - the older ones I leave to fight for themselves. Losing the leaves is probably Black Spot and I am afraid that DA roses are well known for being bare leaved for the summer.Not all DA rose are bad - of course not, but there are far better breeders in the UK than DA - Harkness for example. As Jenny says and as you know roses are fed twice a year, the last time being no later than July. RF So are you saying that roses prefer an alkaline (chalky) soil |
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Post by Rosefriend on Jan 14, 2011 19:38:27 GMT
Nope - what I am saying is that 6.5 is ideal which if I remember rightly is slightly acid??
I think that 7.0 is neutral and above that is alkaline?? Sorry, I said too low didn't I!!
I suppose the soil that roses love is the soil that we all dream about andy - you know the good balanced soil with organic matter in it, equal amount of clay and sand, loads of worms etc etc ... and I bet that only a few of us have that, if at all.
There is another way but it is expensive and that is when planting roses in really unsuitable earth is to dig a large hole, fill it with a good rose compost, plant the rose and by the time that the roots grow out of the compost the rose will be so happy and settled that the other soil won't bother it. A trick that I have done myself, especially when planting a rose where a rose has once been before.
However it won't be an option for you, I don't suppose, as it would be very expensive - blimey 5,000 roses!!
I think that getting the soil tested would be the first thing to do, imho.
RF
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Post by JennyWrenn on Jan 14, 2011 19:56:30 GMT
I go to lot of bother making sure I dont plant a rose where one has been before as understand this not a good idea  but will try your trick RF  |
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Post by Jilly on Jan 15, 2011 16:27:22 GMT
This is just my personal opinion, I love Roses, I've got about 14 in my tiny garden & they do well for me. All of mine are David Austin & I'm only about 6 miles from your beautiful Rose garden Andy, (I was there last summer & I thought it was stunning).
I did notice quite a lot of black spot & I wonder if that isn't always going to be a problem if loads of roses are grown together with nothing in between. The beds round the edge with quite a lot of perennials between the roses seemed to be a lot healthier than the ones with just roses in them.
I can't really offer any advice, I mulch with anything I can get my hands on, but usually what the GCs call soil conditioner which I think is just manure. I do make sure that I rake up all diseased leaves before I lay the mulch though. I feed them once in February when I lay the mulch & again in early July & I do think that the second feed after the first flush of flowers makes all the difference.
Jillyx
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