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Post by fozzie on May 26, 2007 19:43:52 GMT
Glad to see you are yourself again BB. Thankyou for comments
Fxx
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Post by oldmoleskins on May 28, 2007 9:54:20 GMT
That pic of the 'mystery rose' I put on the "first rose" thread:  wasn't actually the first open. This one was :  Regardless of whether it really is Whiskey Mac, any ideas as to why is would be 'blown' like that? Does anyone else have roses that "settle down" after the first one or two of the year? OM. |
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Post by fozzie on May 28, 2007 21:34:56 GMT
Come on OM, its showing its parentage,.The second picture , that is the first to open, looks more like, what it should look like (Irish sorry), if indeed it is Whiskey Mac! Is it not a very tall shrub ie not a vigorous grower, flowers not large, very "bronze" juvenile leaves, heavy scent, suffers from mildew and blackspot. If thats correct, and from your pics most is, then WM it is.
It must be late, I nearly understood all that!
Foz
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Post by oldmoleskins on May 29, 2007 7:57:22 GMT
Come on OM, its showing its parentage,.The second picture , that is the first to open, looks more like, what it should look like (Irish sorry), if indeed it is Whiskey Mac! Is it not a very tall shrub ie not a vigorous grower, flowers not large, very "bronze" juvenile leaves, heavy scent, suffers from mildew and blackspot. If thats correct, and from your pics most is, then WM it is. It must be late, I nearly understood all that! Foz cheers Foz, but, probably back to the mystery then... it's tall(ish) - currently about 4 feet flowers average (not large but certainly not not small) and mainly like the first pic and in clusters, if that helps very light bronzing, in fact predominately green leaves yes, heavy scent suffers from nothing, that I can see, touch wood OM |
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Post by nightowl on May 29, 2007 8:09:17 GMT
what chance have you got, OM, of getting an ID on a rose that puts out such totally different blooms? You'd never think they were off the same bush  Whatever it is, both are gorgeous, and that colour is fabulous ;D ;D |
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Post by fozzie on May 29, 2007 18:27:27 GMT
OM, I'll try and make sure this is english today I must have been tired last night. All the pics I can find are like your "second" or first bloom. Having said that I can remember it as a typical HT shape, if somewhat open. Just to add more confusion It is normally classed as a HT( shudder)Large Flowered Rose (still shudder). I have also seen it classed as a polyantha, Cluster Rose, which would fall in line with your clusters of flowers. By the way 4 ft is not big I would call that small/medium. When you have to look up say 12 ft thats big. Anyway some pics I found of WM. You must have Irish in you otherwise you would drop the E (as in Bushmills or Jamesons)     What do you think to that last one.. it is NOT WM |
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Post by oldmoleskins on May 29, 2007 19:17:00 GMT
Confused of Norfolk here...
well, I don't think it ever has as deep a colour as some of the pics you show, Foz, more of a deepish yellow tinged with apricot (or maybe tingled as RF might say), though on review I s'pose the second one of yours might be it...
So, what's the last one then?
Unless I've got a bottle in front of me to read, I can never remember whether there's an 'e' in whiskey or not, and when I've got a bottle in front of me, I rapidly get to the point where I can't read...
OM.
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Post by fozzie on May 29, 2007 20:50:25 GMT
CoN,
The last one is a rose called Just Joey, another HT thingy. The picture I locate are normally from catologues or specialist sites . So will always be produced under false light or enhanced lighting to give the best "selling"effect, therefore maybe not the best for identification purposes.
(Mine is always with an E or just plain Irish, normally just after a glass of the black stuff. Then back to the black stuff and so on.)
My "mate" has a small nursery concern on the London Road, just outside Attleborough, near the White Lodge PH. He actually sells WM. There are a couple of guys there, including his daughter who know more than I'll ever know about Roses. They are normally very helpful. If your thinking of taking a sample for them to look at or for comparison. Three things 1. take a reasonable sized sample with leaf and flower. 2 transport her in a damp plastic bag and 3 Tell them as soon as you get there in case they think you have half inched it! Thats the way I take cuttings, always carry a few damp plastic bags in me pocket + Swiss army knife (nearly as good as, and expesive as, a Felco No 2)
He'll possible tell you its Norwich Castle cos thats one of his introductions!
Nows a good time cos like yours they will be in bloom.
Does your plant only produce those open blooms as the first flush or do they appear at other times.
Foz
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Post by fozzie on May 29, 2007 20:56:32 GMT
BB,
would it be possible for you to show a leaflet details of that last rose in your picture sequence. Are there 5,7,9,11 or more leaflets per leaf stalk They are all climbers/ramblers? I ask this as some of my shrubs will reach 8ft+
Fxx
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Post by Chuckles on May 29, 2007 21:21:31 GMT
There are 7 Foz, I've just took some pics, neighbour will wonder what the flashing in the garden is ;D just uploading will post in a few minutes
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Post by Chuckles on May 29, 2007 21:24:20 GMT
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Post by fozzie on May 29, 2007 22:00:43 GMT
BB,
sorry to get you flashing in the garden at this time of night, pics are good. I have an idea or two on possible parentage but need a little time to check a few things will be back soonest.
Fxx
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Post by fozzie on May 29, 2007 22:25:18 GMT
BB, I think it is a noisette. Remember that farmer from Charleston, who had a friend called Noisette, who in turn had a Rose breeder brother in France. Not identified it yet but I have one of these  Allister Stella Gray As is Avatar Fxx |
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Post by Chuckles on May 29, 2007 22:57:32 GMT
Flashing in the garden, I do it regular Foz ;D anything for rosier de Philippe Noisette  It really is a pretty rose and such lovely small flowers. If you can't ID it I think we should call it Fozzies Flasher ;D |
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Post by oldmoleskins on May 30, 2007 6:51:19 GMT
CoN, The last one is a rose called Just Joey, another HT thingy. The picture I locate are normally from catologues or specialist sites . So will always be produced under false light or enhanced lighting to give the best "selling"effect, therefore maybe not the best for identification purposes. (Mine is always with an E or just plain Irish, normally just after a glass of the black stuff. Then back to the black stuff and so on.) My "mate" has a small nursery concern on the London Road, just outside Attleborough, near the White Lodge PH. He actually sells WM. There are a couple of guys there, including his daughter who know more than I'll ever know about Roses. They are normally very helpful. If your thinking of taking a sample for them to look at or for comparison. Three things 1. take a reasonable sized sample with leaf and flower. 2 transport her in a damp plastic bag and 3 Tell them as soon as you get there in case they think you have half inched it! Thats the way I take cuttings, always carry a few damp plastic bags in me pocket + Swiss army knife (nearly as good as, and expesive as, a Felco No 2) He'll possible tell you its Norwich Castle cos thats one of his introductions! Nows a good time cos like yours they will be in bloom. Does your plant only produce those open blooms as the first flush or do they appear at other times. Foz Thanks for the Attleborough lead Foz - I'll get down there shortly... I saw some Norwich Castle in a neighbour's house and thought it might be that, but on re-inspection thought otherwise. And as far as I can remember (this is only my second season) it's the first one or two that are 'open' in that way... OM. |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2007 10:36:36 GMT
4PI found another green rose, a floribunda named ’Peppermint Ice’. It was created in UK by an amateur, Bossom in 1991  Apuldram Roses sells it. www.apuldramroses.co.uk/PEPPERMINT+ICE+Bosgreen-rose.htmNow I am not sure which is exactly your rose, probably is the miniature from Kordes if they named it Kordana. A floribunda will grow up to 3 feet. OMI think that your rose can be ‚Valencia’ a hybrid tea from Kordes. Here are 2 photos of ‚Valencia’   and here a link to www.helpmefind.comwww.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=6381&tab=10 where you can see a lot of photos. The colour of the flowers can vary depending on the environmental conditions. You can find it at www.rosebuddies.com/rose113.htmlor www.davidaustinroses.com/english/showrose.asp?showr=3679This was my first thought when I saw the photo,I have ’Valencia’ in my garden but dont have a photo yet. As I am a member of the Romanian Rose Society I sent the pictures to the society’s president and he said ‚Valencia’ too. So it can be, but I think its a little difficult to identify a rose just looking at a picture. it would be interesting to see what answer you get if you go to that nursery. Rosefan
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Post by 4pygmies on May 31, 2007 13:16:01 GMT
Thanks Rosefan, for taking the trouble to look for me. I do appreciate it. That Peppermint Ice does look quite similar - the underneath of the petals seem to have a slightly pink tinge which mine have. The pink intensifies as the flower ages. It's really beautiful even when it's fading!
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Post by JennyWrenn on Jun 7, 2007 5:55:40 GMT
Two of my climbers, not planted together, have black spot - any ideas - I hate using chemical sprays as the birds feed off them
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2007 9:51:18 GMT
Hi Jenny First of all you have to remove the affected leaves both from the plant and the ground. Dont compost them. You can use sulphur or baking soda as organical remedies. Here is a link to a good article about blackspot. www.rosemagazine.com/articles02/pages/blackspot.aspRosefan |
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Post by Chuckles on Jun 7, 2007 22:24:03 GMT
Hi Jenny First of all you have to remove the affected leaves both from the plant and the ground. Dont compost them. You can use sulphur or baking soda as organical remedies. Here is a link to a good article about blackspot. www.rosemagazine.com/articles02/pages/blackspot.aspRosefan Had a look at that site Rosefan, very useful thanks |
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Post by JennyWrenn on Jun 8, 2007 7:34:55 GMT
Yes thank you from me too
jenny x
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Post by fozzie on Jun 8, 2007 18:15:40 GMT
Sorry did not reply earlier had "visitors" so banned from computer! I'll add a littlr re blackspot, ALL roses will suffer some worse than others. I use both Sulphur and sodium bicarb (baking powder) if you can find it use Potassium bicarb, a little more effective. All to do with PH of leaves stops the fungus growing. If you add soft soap not only does it help bicarb to stick it kills aphids. Blackspot does not overwinter on the leaves, in fact it will probably dies after 28 days on leaves no longer on plant. But it still helps to keep things clean and tidyIt is more likely to overwinter on the stems. I will normally give them a winter wash at same time as fruit trees. BB I still think your rose is a Noisette and close to Reve d'Or, although as name suggests its wrong colours but have seen many hues and shades. Here is a photo od alister with thumb for scales is yours roughly same size?   I incude this to show difference in colour on same flower let alone plant! Fxx |
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Post by Chuckles on Jun 8, 2007 18:49:29 GMT
BB I still think your rose is a Noisette and close to Reve d'Or, although as name suggests its wrong colours but have seen many hues and shades. Here is a photo od alister with thumb for scales is yours roughly same size? I incude this to show difference in colour on same flower let alone plant! Fxx I think you may have got it Foz if not your very close. The size does look right to me and colours can vary in the flesh and on pics. Here are mine again to compare   |
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Post by Chuckles on Jun 10, 2007 15:00:33 GMT
Foz, am a bit excited and need your expert opinion and eye. I've been looking through some rose sites and came across a name that sounded familiar Ghislaine de Feligonde so looked it up. 1st pics is Ghis and 2nd pic is mine, what do you think  |
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Post by Rosefriend on Jun 10, 2007 15:12:52 GMT
Ooooh Chuckles - thought that your rose looked familiar - I have Ghislaine de Feligonde as well. They certainly do look similar don't they!!! Here are a couple of pics of mine - sorry about the shadow - sun was wrong.   RF |
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Post by fozzie on Jun 11, 2007 18:15:51 GMT
BB,
I am going to be very cautious. Not convinced, Ghis is suposedly a Musk Rambler. If you look close there are differences regarding stems. Although stems on RF pics look closer to yours. As I am writing this I can not rember what you said re flowering does it flower once(june ish) ,continuous (thru summer)or repeat again later in year (late summer/autuimn). Having said that there are other clues that may well fit in with Ghis.. still on case. If you have patience of Job then look up origins of Musk Rose, its a bag of worms.
Fxx
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Post by oldmoleskins on Jun 15, 2007 15:18:12 GMT
OMI think that your rose can be ‚Valencia’ a hybrid tea from Kordes. Here are 2 photos of ‚Valencia’ ... ... but I think its a little difficult to identify a rose just looking at a picture. it would be interesting to see what answer you get if you go to that nursery. Rosefan Rosefan, thanks for that, we'll add Valencia to the frame - and sorry not to have acknowledged it before - you posted the day I left on holiday, and on return I didn't look far enough back through the updated posts... OM. |
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Post by oldmoleskins on Jun 15, 2007 16:23:31 GMT
On a completely different tack, I found this the other day, and wondered if the assembled rosebuffs of GWD would care to comment:
It's from about 100 years ago - has it any relevance today?
OM.
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Post by Rosefriend on Jun 16, 2007 8:15:59 GMT
All in all OM I would personally say that bud grafting was started basically to make a rose saleable within the shortest timescale possible. A lot more plants can be made from bud grafting as from soft/hardwood cuttings, although there are also some good reasons for bud grafting.
A weak variety of rose can grow a lot better if it has been grafted onto a vigorous rootstock. Or a bush rose can be made into a climbing rose with the use of the correct rootstock.
Having said that I still feel that bud grafting was done to line the rose growers pocket more than anything. There are also some disadvantages to bud grafting as well.
One of these and possibly the main disadvantage is that the bud graft is and always will be the weakest point on the rose. I have seen this here in Germany, after an exceptionally cold winter. The bud graft dies leaving the rootstock and because of this bud grafted roses can have a limited lifespan.
Roses with their own roots are more likely to survive a very cold winter, even if all the growth above the ground dies off, the roots will very possibly still be alive. An example of this is the 1000 year old rose in Hildesheim - it was bombed, burnt to the ground and it is still growing and produces a magnificent show of blooms every year.
One disadvantage of course is that if the rose is a little weak, without the help of a vigorous rootstock, it may take the plant longer to mature but most roses nowadays are vigorous enough to grow well without grafting.
RF
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Post by oldmoleskins on Jun 16, 2007 8:21:51 GMT
An example of this is the 1000 year old rose in Hildesheim - it was bombed, burnt to the ground and it is still growing and produces a magnificent show of blooms every year. RF  How big is that, then? Do you have pics? OM. |
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How big is that, then? Do you have pics?